Proper Vinyl Record Care

 
Why vinyl needs cleaning

Many of your records may be in much better condition than you think. Whilst nothing will eliminate physical surface damage, you would be surprised how much debris causing surface noise can be removed.  Older records generally have fifty years of accumulated debris and have never had the benefit of proper modern cleaning, and no, a “dust bug” or “Emitex cloth” didn’t clean, it merely moved dust about. There are  practical ways to improve your listening experience, through ultrasonic (very expensive)  or wet/vacuum cleaning (still expensive) which achieves greatly superior results.

The Problem

All records started life with an ultra-thin film of residue “mould release” , a stearic acid compound included in raw vinyl to ensure it’s clean separation from the pressing stamper.
Then each time the record was taken out of its sleeve to play, the grooves were exposed to domestic dust, dirt, greasy fingerprint residue, and in olden days, cigarette smoke. Some record owners rarely returned the record to its sleeve, leaving them piled in a heap after playing. Poor handling practice and lack of care has left a lot of vinyl records with remediable residues.

Some vinyl  problems can’t be solved

Manufacturing was not perfect, and even “mint” records can suffer faults. Not all pressing plants operated in a clean environment. Under pressure to improve margins, or win pressing contracts, shortcuts were taken. Poorly stored moist labels released steam during pressing, which made left pressing  imperfections. Less than perfect acetates with small flaws were sold cheaper. Some labels are notorious for “noisy” pressings.



If they came out of the factory good, record owners were the next problem. Physical impact damage to grooves caused by heavyweight tone arms being jogged or dropped on the record are the biggest drawbacks  of vintage vinyl  pursuit. The portable record player was inherently unstable and prone to scratch vinyl. It’s reckoned 70-80% of 50s/60s vinyl is not of collectable quality.

Another problem that needs to be avoided is the damage done by storage for  decades in a polythene-lined inner sleeve. Such inner sleeves were popular in the ’60s and eventually ruined records. Over the decades the polythene formed a chemical reaction with vinyl, leaving a thin surface film bonded to the vinyl. The first visible sign  is a moire-pattern rippling reflection on the vinyl surface, usually extending beyond the grooves and onto the run-out vinyl land. It doesn’t wash off.

Potentially, the heat generated at the point of contact between stylus and vinyl may transfer molten plastic on to your stylus tip, permanently impairing its performance. There is no solution. Do not buy or play a record with this problem, it’s not worth it.

Avoid so called vinyl “lubricants”

Avoid anything which coats the grooves, like LAST “vinyl preservative”, anti-static spray coating or anything claiming to lubricate the groove. Any additional material in the groove creates “bad information” which your stylus reads the same way it reads “good information” – the music, and impairs faithful reproduction. You want bare clean grooves, and nothing else.

Economic case for cleaning.

There is another more serious aspect, which I have read but can’t claim to prove. The point of contact between the stylus tip and vinyl causes friction and considerable build up of heat, which causes the vinyl momentarily to soften, potentially welding any existing particle of grit into the groove. It is claimed this process acts like sandpaper, abrading the vinyl groove and impairing the function of the stylus, shortening its life.

Be wary of people selling you problems in order to sell you a solution! However, no harm will come from proper cleaning –  there is no good reason not to clean records – and there are many benefits. A record cleaning machine is an essential component of any Hi Fi  and essential for any serious record collector.

The vinyl grooves of an LP close up

To get any closer calls for an electron microscope. These amazing pictures  created by the  optics department at Rochester University give us an intimate look in the vinyl groove.




Along comes Stanley the Stylus riding in the trench, sashaying against the contours in the 45 degree groove wall that are the musical information, sending those physical movements up into the moving coils in the cartridge above to be turned into electrical information destined for amplification. The groove/ stylus sensitivity to generate discernible change in sound  can be as small as 1/1000th of the thickness of a human hair, and everything the stylus hits gets interpreted as information. Any dust or muck in the groove which gets onto the stylus tip reduces it’s reading efficiency, which is why you should clean records before first play.

Some people claim unwanted vinyl surface coatings cause a degree of “muddyness” in the sound, which lifts after cleaning, but as with all things HiFi, there are also sceptics, like this one on a hifi forum:
.04-24-08: Maineiac,

The more you clean vinyl, the more dirty they get and the more pops and crackles you hear. Most of the records I have … do not have static nor pop sounds because I’ve never cleaned them from day one.

It takes all sorts, though this one has thought himself into a cul-de-sac, a variant of the famous advert from the Sixties. “I’ve never tried Guiness because I don’t like it” . How does he know his records get more pops after cleaning, if he doesn’t clean them?

Another cleaning-sceptic claimed muck “filled in holes in the vinyl”, like tarmac fills holes in the road, giving you a smoother ride.  Superstition is rife in hi fi, and a belief in magic. I ripped a track before and after cleaning. When I A:B’d the two rips you can hear the pop on one  absent on the other. It’s called science– knowledge gained by experimentation, observation and measurement, which can be replicated and used to advantage. It’s not just the preserve of scientists. Ordinary folk can do it too.

Two problems,  two solutions
A friend who buys mainly new modern records swears by an ethanol-based cleaning fluid (commercial brand Knosti Disco Antistat) which claims to target mould release and static. For vintage vinyl, I recommend an Iso-Propyl Alcohol (IPA) based cleaner, which I find is is more effective in shifting contact soiling and accumulated detritus in the grooves.
I have found the use of both can be quite effective. Clean with one, and again with the other, a continued improvement in vinyl reproduction can be obtained, if only because a record benefits from a second wash, with slightly different effect.



The Record Cleaning Machine and process
 

You really need a record cleaning machine which vacuums off the cleaning fluid and the gunk, which otherwise evaporates, leaving the gunk behind. Some people a rinse a newly-cleaned record  with a distilled water wash. I think this is a redundant step, but I can’t see any harm from it.
There are numerous machines on offer at different pricepoints and with different methods of operation.

I recommend the Moth Pro from British Audio Products, which is a noisy but  affordable (around the £500 mark) and therefore popular machine compared with more expensive alternatives, but there are many others available. The VPI is also popular, and the Oki Noki, Nitty Gritty.
Some people  baulk at the cost of a cleaning machine. The Moth Pro is around £500, VPI is similar, Loricraft at around £1500, and there are now the new generation of ultrasonic cleaning machines (Klaudio and Audio Systeme) at around the £2,000 price-point.

If cost is not an issue, lucky you, probably ultrasonic is the way to go. For the rest of us, a wet/vacuum system is a practical solution, and nothing is the worst solution. Given the cost of a high-end hi fi in tens of thousands of pounds, and a record collection possibly much more, with your listening pleasure at stake, why would you not invest in a cleaner?

Visible evidence of dust and dirt removal

In the real-world before and after example above, you see the odd bit of persistent debris. The first wash is the most critical, and  successive washes remove more detritus, but there is a technique I have found more beneficial still.

Pre-wash: the finger touch method 

In addition to surface dust, pet-hairs, and easily removed contamination (one recently had chocolate smears, god knows how) single pops are mostly caused by debris tightly wedged in the grooves, which resist washing out. You can see some in the post-wash close up above.
Forget the rule of never touching the vinyl groove surface.

Do a quick finger-trace over the vinyl surface to dislodge any persistent debris, before commencing the wash.   Gently run three fingers over the grooves in a short brushing motion in the direction of the groove rotation, turning the disc slowly in your hand. You will see tiny specks of white dust being swept aside, but these are not what you are after. You will very often feel some specks of grit which resist your touch, wedged in the groove, visible under bright light. It’s not unusual for there to be a half dozen or more on a side, especially vintage records, and these will each generate a click when the stylus hits them.

If you apply repeated gentle finger brushing these will often yield up, but if they persist, a gentle push with fingernail will often release them. Never use more force than necessary, which could do more harm than good. You want to release any trapped grit – 90% of grit specks will shift with finger pressure, one in ten is firmly welded in the groove, will not budge.

Once you are satisfied there are no further specks of grit to be felt you can proceed to the washing stage, which will dissolve away any oil residue from your finger contact, and the original gunk and mould release. This manual touch-brushing I have found effective in acheiving near-silent playback from records with previously persistent clicks and pops.

The Benefit of cleaning

Nothing will repair physical damage to the groove, such as scratches, major scuffs, dropped tone-arm, or groove-wear. However, for the undamaged record, up to a 75% reduction in avoidable surface noise can be expected, especially single clicks,  significantly enhanced musical presence,  improved stylus life, and less wear on your records. And much improved enjoyment of your records. At a cost of maybe less than 50 pence a record.

Re-Issues for 2017

On Nov. 10, 2007, I braved the PA/NY winters in a trip to Buffalo’s now defunct Club Infinity, with this lineup awaiting: Cobra Starship, The Rocket Summer, Armor For Sleep, and The Academy Is. Raised on TRL’s “Spankin’ New Music Week” branded rock — specifically anything from the Fueled By Ramen catalog — you should know where my head was at when devising this list. Not that I regret those choices, though. I’d still argue our entry from that aforementioned Academy Is represents some of the most creative of this era’s pop-rock, while lesser-TV-ready bands like Straylight Run, Steel Train and The Color Fred hold up just fine. And if rock isn’t your thing, there should be some 10-year-old curveballs in the list below.

Also, I remember this very, very vividly (although I couldn’t spot myself in the video).

Honorable Mentions

Limbeck — ST
Last pressed in 2007

Thrice — The Alchemy Index
First portion released in 2007

Jay-Z — American Gangster
Last pressed in 2007. Sells for about $50 on secondary markets.

Rilo Kiley — Under The Blacklight
Last pressed in 2007. Sells for about $100 on secondary markets.

Anberlin — Cities
Last pressing was in box-set. Single LP going for over $100 on secondary markets.

Daphne Loves Derby — Good Night, Witness Light
Would be first pressing.

Cobra Starship — Viva La Cobra!
Would be first pressing.

Dewey Cox — Walk Hard (7″)
Am I crazy enough to think this will happen? Yes.

The List

In no particular order. Can be either first pressing, or needed additional pressing.

The Academy Is… — SantiOriginal Label: Fueled By Ramen

The now defunct Chicago band’s second, and most adventurous, LP remains a triumph, anchored by its avoidance of sheen that bands in their genre often fell prey to. First single, “We’ve Got A Big Mess On Our Hands,” is a purposefully strained, messy affair, the hook’s guitar sound more White Stripes than Fall Out Boy. “Sleeping With Giants,” which gave name to that intro concert experience, again opts for disjointed song structure, the chorus almost a relief; the anti-build. There is some Fueled By Ramen tradition here; “Everything We Had” is the standard mid-album ballad. But mostly, they’re going against what came before in much loved opener, Almost Here. Listen to those last four tracks, then jump to Fast Times At Barrington High. You’ll see how they course corrected back to a less exciting “normal.”

Jonny Greenwood — There Will Be Blood
Original Label: Nonesuch Records

I have a simple request. Please don’t change the original artwork on this. Quite possibly the greatest score of the 2000s (Fountain, Her, Social Network, another down our list are probably the candidates), Jonny Greenwood’s work is, as they say, a “wolf in sheep’s clothing,” a reliance on classical strings quickly turned unsettling. Just listen to the piano work in “Eat Him By His Own Light,” more akin to horror maestros than period drama. Also, Greenwood should totally, totally do a horror score. Last note, the soundtrack released is only 32 minutes, and Greenwood reportedly wrote hours of music, so could an expanded vinyl reissue be in the cards?

Flight Of The Conchords — The Distant Future
Original Label: Sub Pop Records

The comedy duo’s first Sub Pop release, it’s notable for its inclusion of both “If You’re Into It,” and “Not Crying,” which wouldn’t show up on the following full length. The former is classic Flight, Jemaine asking politely: “Him and you in the nude/That’s what he’s prepared to do/Is that the kind of thing that you think you might be into?,” the song getting progressively dirtier from there. But the real highlight are the live tracks, with great takes of both “Most Beautiful Girl” and “Robots,” in what sounds like a small club and with what sounds like an unsuspecting crowd ¹. We’ve got songs that need to be on vinyl and must-hear live renditions; let’s get this on a 12″ before the robot uprising of the year 2000.

Kanye West — Graduation
Original Label: Roc-A-Fella Records

Upon posting, someone will approach me on Twitter, stating, “I already have this on vinyl!” Your shitty bootleg doesn’t count, sorry. Kanye West’s 2007 Graduation may be lower on my personal Kanye rankings ², but I’d still drop a pretty penny on any reissue, whether they expand the gatefold — as in the 808s & Heartbreak release — or go further with bonus tracks. Those first 3 tracks are still one of the strongest Kanye first-acts, and “Homecoming” holds up despite the rising cult of Chris Martin hate. End our pain. Someone. Respect The Classics maybe? Just imagine a big gatefold of this artwork.

Straylight Run — The Needles The Space
Original Label: Universal

Pressed just once back in 2007, vinyl has sold for around $20 the last couple times it’s come to secondary markets; it just doesn’t show up often. The far superior of the Straylight Run full lengths (their Prepare To Be Wrong EP is another must-hear), The Needles The Space features a more efficient, effective breakdown of John and Michelle Nolan vocals, giving the latter highlights like “The Miracle That Never Came” (the album’s original title) and “Still Alone.” Meanwhile, John gets to sing lead on the greatest 3-song stretch of his career (yes, TBS, Straylight and solo work), with the finale of “Buttoned Down,” “Track #12” and “The First of The Century.” An album that deserves classic status in this era of alt-rock.

Nick Cave/Warren Ellis — The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford
Original Label: Mute

Another contender in that “Best Score of The Century” conversation, Nick Cave and Warren Ellis’s 2007 collaboration, The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford, combines the traditional sounds of the western (“Rather Lovely Thing,” “Carnival”) with more modern, eclectic moments (“Song For Jesse,” “What Happens Next”). A less stressful standalone listen than the frantic There Will Be Blood, its string-centered pieces are especially gorgeous, reminding you of the still, barren landscapes of Andrew Dominik’s now classic. And the contradictions between “Song For Jesse” and “Song For Bob,” one complex, sporting moments of brightness, the other an out-and-out tragedy, is alone worth the price of admission (or pressing costs).

New Found Glory — From The Screen To Your Stereo (Pt. II)
Original Label: Drive-Thru Records

Is this an embarrassing one? Is it doubly embarrassing that behind Coming Home, the Screen To Your Stereo material is what I return to most in terms of NFG? I don’t care. Both volumes remain immensely enjoyable, a string of, admittedly, goofy guest stars making part 2 memorable. Nothing tops part 1’s ridiculous rendition of “That Thing You Do!,” but Chris Carrabba joining “The Promise” and Lisa Loeb coming back for her own “Stay (I Missed You)” come close ³. Pundik’s vocals remain much improved from those early days (one thing they actually retained from the Coming Home experiment), and it helps when advanced production can actually match the pop credentials of the originals. These may be ridiculous releases, but they’re my brand of ridiculous.

Mae — Singularity
Original Label: Capitol/Tooth & Nail

With most everything else in their catalog pressed (or being pressed), it seems like only a matter of time before Mae’s major label release gets some vinyl love. And while it seems to get lost in the Everglow aftermath, I’m still quite a fan of its aims, especially in those first four tracks. “Brink of Disaster” is a synth bliss not often matched (maybe MCS’s “Fell In Love Without You”), “Just Let Go” is the type of mid-tempo groove Mae truly thrived in, and “Crazy 8s” has that pre-chorus build I can still get down with.

The Color Fred — Bend To Break
Original Label: Equal Vision Records

Another that’s not necessarily expensive when found, it just doesn’t appear often. And besides putting more copies into the world, reissues spark fresh spins, something this album deserves. Recorded on the tail end of Fred Mascherino’s time in Taking Back Sunday (and featuring tracks like “Minnesota,” intended for that previous band), Bend To Break sports some pretty straightforward rock, but is quite relentless in its approach. Mascherino’s road-worn, yet forceful vocal work is on full display here, as is his penchant for writing propulsive hooks. The album moves in a way TBS hasn’t since his departure, even with a ballad or two tossed in. And I could still sing along after a multi-year break. There’s much to be said for that.

Steel Train — Trampoline
Original Label: Drive-Thru Records

God, I feel like I’ve been banging this drum for years (fuck, I have). The pre-Bleachers/Fun. project for singer-songwriter Jack Antonoff, and one that recently reunited at Antonoff’s own music festival, peaked with their ST in 2010. But Trampoline is no slouch. From lead single “I Feel Weird” and it’s appreciation of life credo (“And I got this girl, not yet crushed by the world; Ill count the freckles on her face one, two, three hundred times a day”); to “Alone On The Sea,” a story of returning home, not recognizing the world around you, there’s much to dissect. And given both songs reference 9/11, we can see the world which shaped this early 20s analysis. Trampoline remains one of Drive-Thru’s best.

Debate on…what do YOU think deserves a 10-year anniversary pressing? Jump over to Facebook or Twitter and let us know what should be on this list. And make sure to listen to our Spotify playlist, featuring tracks from these selections.

1. These live cuts were actually my first ever exposure to the band. They’re so good that the studio versions just never did it for me 
2. Kanye Rankings, as of 2017. 1. My Dark Beautiful | 2. College Dropout | 3. 808s | 4. Pablo | 5. Yeezus | 6. Graduation | 7. Late Registration 
3. I might have to do a list of cover songs where the original artist is actually involved. 

What ever happened? School of Rock!

How old were you when you sang “The Great American Melting Pot” (1977)?

I was 20. It was the first time I had been hired to sing! The production company flew me from LA to NY and put me up at a nice hotel for three days.

What else were you doing professionally at the time?

I had just completed my first LP for Capitol Records and was preparing to go on my first tour…it was a time of firsts!

Where were you living at the time?

Los Angeles.

Were you already aware of Schoolhouse Rock when you were hired?

I was not really aware of Schoolhouse Rock before I received their call. I had been raised in Switzerland, so it had not crossed my radar.

How were you hired?

The production team got in touch with my managers and we talked about it; it was something I was excited about.

Did you have any say in which song you got to sing?

I was presented with “The Great American Melting Pot,” which was written for my voice.

Did you make any suggestions for the song?

Absolutely not—it was perfect. Lynn Ahrens, who wrote it, was incredibly astute and kind.

Why didn’t you sing any other Schoolhouse Rock songs?

I was really busy performing and recording.

Does that mean they asked you to do more?

No, I wasn’t asked!

Any funny stories from the recording?

Gosh, I don’t remember anything during the recording of the song that was funny other than, knowing me as I was then, I always sang better with a handful of peanut M&Ms during a break—nothing like a good old fashioned milkshake, too! I broke all the rules of your more traditional rules of vocalizing!

What did you think of the song?

I thought it was great. My grandparents also came from Russia, so the song really meant something to me.

What did you think of the finished animated musical short?

I thought the animation was wonderful. It really brought it to life!

What were you paid?

I don’t really remember.

Have you had any fun Schoolhouse Rock moments since (i.e. a reaction when someone you meet discovers you had a role in it)?

Well, actually, everyone [was] pretty shocked when they realize[d] I sang the song—my children especially!

What are you doing these days?

I’m in the process of recording my 16th CD. I’ve continued to write, record, and perform. I [am touring] Europe in June 2014 and I have a big concert at Carnegie Hall on November 8th—a retrospective of my four decades in this business.

Where do you live?

California.

What did your kids think of your Schoolhouse Rock song?

I have three of my own kids and five stepkids; they [all] thought the song was great!

What has been your career highlight so far?

Besides having written a poem about seeing Don McLean at the Troubadour in LA that became [the song] “Killing Me Softly,” which I recorded on my first LP for Capitol Records, I think the highlights are performing at the beautiful and legendary theater the Carre in Amsterdam, the Grammy Museum in LA, and the upcoming Carnegie Hall performance.

What did you think when you first heard from me?

I was interested in your email about the genesis of the Schoolhouse Rock song.

Has anyone else ever interviewed about this? If so, when and for what publication?

I’ve never been interviewed about the song before.

How do you look back on the experience?

It was a great experience. The people were wonderful, the atmosphere was very professional, and I felt really good about it.

Anything you’d like to add?

Only that it’s been a pleasure revisiting the early days with you, and I look forward to connecting in the future.

How old were you when you sang the first of your three Schoolhouse Rock songs, “Interjections!”?

26.

What else were you doing professionally at the time?

I was working on my third LP which was released on Elektra/Asylum and produced by the late Tommy Sellers.

Where were you living at the time?

I moved back home to Philadelphia from L.A. in 1974 and stayed in Philly till September of ‘77 when I moved back to L.A. So from ‘74 -’77, I was doing a lot of session work in New York City. I also recorded my fourth LP in New York during that period.

Were you already aware of Schoolhouse Rock when you were hired?

You know, I don’t really remember. I believe I was. It was 40 years ago. I know I was glad to be on board!

How were you hired? Were you hired for all three of your songs at the same time?

Like I said, I was doing a lot of sessions and one producer would tell another producer about me and that’s how I got hired to sing on various projects. If they were looking for a female vocalist who could learn fast and sing with a lot of muscle in any genre with a large range, they hired me. In answer to your second question, no. I was booked to sing on three separate occasions for the three songs I sang on.

Did you have any say in which songs you got to sing?

As a hired hand, one sings what is put in front of [her]. There is no choice in such a situation. The music is very specific and worked out to go along with a storyboard that becomes the animation. A lot of time and effort goes into planning a recording session. Especially when it’s part of a network TV show. It’s not like people getting together to jam.

Did you make any suggestions for any of the songs?

I was given a lot of freedom concerning my vocal approach, but they did, after all, hire me for the way I sing. I added those really high notes at the end of the songs.

Was any song your favorite to sing?

Definitely “Sufferin’ ‘til Suffrage”! The song lent itself to my singing style and the subject matter (women’s right to vote) was something I could get passionate about!

What did you think of the finished animated musical shorts?

They always did a great job!

What were you paid?

AFTRA scale.

Have you had any fun Schoolhouse Rock moments since (i.e. a reaction when someone you meet discovers you had a role in it)?

This happens quite often, though folks are usually more impressed by the fact that I was in Frank Zappa’s band. There is one experience I had with a young girl in the neighborhood. She lives a couple doors down from me and left an invitation in my mailbox to come see her in her school’s presentation of Schoolhouse Rock. It wasn’t easy to break away from all I had on my plate at the time, but I made it a point to be there for my young neighbor’s performance. Sitting in the school auditorium watching these young children perform the songs from Schoolhouse Rock so many decades after we recorded them filled my heart and brought tears to my eyes.

What are you doing these days?

Everything I’ve always done: writing songs, recording, singing, and playing. Also, I do lots of interviews and I have a book in progress.

Where do you live?

Nashville.

What has been your career highlight so far?

Too many to mention. To list a few: being in the Mothers of Invention [Frank Zappa’s band], getting a top pop hit “Change of Heart” recorded by Cyndi Lauper, having one of my songs “Stronger Than the Wind” recorded by Tina Turner, playing in France and Germany, my first time performing in Europe in 2011.

What did you think when you first heard from me?

Yet another interview. There’s so much work to do. Can I even find the time. If I got paid for these things, I’d be rich!

Has anyone else ever interviewed about this? If so, when and for what publication?

Yes. Too many to remember. Never with as many questions as you have.

How do you look back on the experience?

So busy in the present, not a lot of time to look back. Dylan said, “Don’t look back,” but sometimes I have to in order to answer journalists’ questions. Of course, I’m glad to have been a part of Schoolhouse Rock and proud that I could contribute to the education of America just by singing.

Essra and Bob Dorough 2010

How old were you when you began writing for Schoolhouse Rock?

In my 40s.

What else were you doing professionally at the time?

Playing piano with bands, jazz group, singers, recording dates.

1974

Where were you living at the time?

Los Angeles.

What did you think of the Schoolhouse Rock concept when you first heard it?

Anything that Bob Dorough was connected with was usually excellent.

How were you hired? Were you originally hired to write multiple songs, or just “I’m Just a Bill”?

As I recall, I was hired to write one song.

Did you have any say in which topics you got to write about?

I was usually given a choice of several topics.

Did you propose any songs/topics that were rejected?

Yes. I wrote “Prepositions Are Lonesome Words.” The topic had already been covered. [“Busy Prepositions,” 1993]

How long would it take you, on average, to write a Schoolhouse Rock song? Did you do your own research or were you presented with which facts to include?

I did my own research. Usually finished a song in 2-3 days. Dorough’s orchestrations then suited my ideas beautifully.

How hard was it to explain legislature to children in writing “I’m Just a Bill”?

I find good songs are difficult to write for both children and adults, no matter what the topic.

Which Schoolhouse Rock song you wrote was your favorite and why?

My prepositions song was my favorite. Too bad they didn’t need it.

What did you think of the finished animated musical shorts?

I was impressed with the quality of all Schoolhouse Rock products.

How were you paid—salary, flat fee per song, royalty per song, other?

Flat fee per song.

At what point did you realize “I’m Just a Bill” in particular had evolved from one of a series of an animated musical shorts into a classic of pop culture?

I regarded the whole series with respect and admiration.

Did you in any way foresee its popularity?

Of course not. It’s nearly impossible to foresee matters of popularity.

What do you consider your career highlight to date?

I have no idea. It’s a miracle that I’m still interested in music.

Where do you live?

Portland, OR.

If you have kids/grandkids, what did they think of your Schoolhouse Rock songs?

My kids were duly impressed. They never seemed particularly interested in my music.

Has anyone else ever interviewed about this? If so, when and for what publication?

The Schoolhouse Rock songs are mentioned in many interviews that I’ve had.

Do you still have any ongoing connection (professionally or personally) to Schoolhouse Rock?

Not really. Twenty-five or 30 years have passed. Dorough and I have been friends since long before Schoolhouse Rock existed.

Have you appeared at any fan conventions to sign autographs? If not, would you?

I would comply with appropriate requests.

What is your perspective on the longevity and legacy of Schoolhouse Rock?

Congratulations to all involved.

How do you look back on the experience?

It was fun, and we turned out a first-class product. Bob Dorough is a remarkable musician and the whole series reflects his taste and his excellence.

How old were you when you began writing for Schoolhouse Rock?

About 22.

What else were you doing professionally at the time?

I had just been hired as a secretary, working in the copy department of an advertising agency called McCaffrey and McCall. It was my first job out of college and I hoped to become a copywriter. That opportunity led to a career as a copywriter, followed by freelance careers as a TV writer (Schoolhouse Rock and many others), a jingle writer, a television producer of many network shows for young people, and ultimately a musical theatre writer. It all started there.

Where were you living at the time? 

My ex-husband and I were sleeping on the floor of his sister’s apartment in Flushing, Queens. We had just arrived in NYC and were looking for jobs. (Flushing was not the New York City I had envisioned—it took me awhile to figure out where Manhattan was.) I answered two ads in the Times—one for an insurance company, one for an advertising agency. We were broke, and I would have taken the first job offered. Luckily, it was McCaffrey and McCall who offered first.

Were you already aware of Schoolhouse Rock when you were hired?

No, not at all.

How were you hired? 

I took an old-fashioned typing test to get my secretarial position. Since I’ve never learned to type, I passed with my own four-finger method. I had to be shown how to use the huge Remington Selectric typewriter, complete with a self-correcting wheel. I used to bring my guitar to work and play and write songs on my lunch hour because I was bored silly as a secretary. One day one of the producers of Schoolhouse Rock, George Newall, passed by and casually asked me if I’d like to try writing a song for Schoolhouse Rock. I wrote “The Preamble,” it went on the air with me singing, and that was the beginning. It was dumb luck—being in the right place at the right time with the right person passing by.

Were you originally hired to write multiple songs, or just one? 

Just one. Then they started asking for more.

Did you have any say in which topics you got to write about? 

We were told the general category (American history, grammar, etc.) but we chose our own topics for the most part.

Did you propose any songs/topics that were rejected? 

Don’t think so.

How long would it take you, on average, to write a Schoolhouse Rock song?

I’m a pretty fast writer. I’d guess to research and write a song would take me anywhere from a few days to a week.

Did you do your own research or were you presented with which facts to include? 

Did my own.

Which Schoolhouse Rock song you wrote was your favorite and why? 

I’m fond of “Interplanet Janet” because she’s an adventurous female character. (And I like the way I sound singing it.) Many years later I was asked to do a rewrite for schools because Pluto had been downgraded to a non-planet. I revised the lyrics as follows:

original: And Pluto, little Pluto, is the farthest planet Janet’s been. [in aired version, “ from our sun” replaced “Janet’s been”]
revision: And Pluto’s not a planet, but Janet thinks it should have been.

What is your favorite Schoolhouse Rock song you did not write? 

I think maybe “Three Is a Magic Number.” Or maybe “Figure Eight.” They’re both beautiful.

What song you wrote (whether or not Schoolhouse Rock) is your favorite? 

This is an impossible one to answer. Between television, film, theater, and concert work, my body of work is pretty big at this point.

Which Schoolhouse Rock song was your favorite to sing? 

Probably “The Preamble.” It was the first one I wrote and sang and there was an incredible sense of glee standing at a microphone and learning how to use my voice.

Any funny stories from the recordings? 

I once had to perform live with Bobby Dorough for an ABC-TV event called Funshine Saturday, on board a ship. I was supposed to play the guitar to accompany myself (something I had never done in performance before) and I expected there would be a stool or a chair onstage for me. There was nothing to sit on, and I had not brought a guitar strap. You try playing a guitar without a strap while standing. It is, very simply, impossible. That was my first and last public performance with a musical instrument.

Lynn and Bob recording 

“A Noun Is a Person, Place, or Thing”; 

photo courtesy of George Newall

What did you think of the finished animated musical shorts? 

I thought they were brilliant—so simple and so witty, even with very limited animation.

What are your most cherished/funniest Schoolhouse Rock stories since (a reaction when someone you meet discovers you had a role in it, seeing its influence in an unexpected way, hearing a celeb you admire sing its praises, etc.)? 

When I speak to theater students at colleges—people who want to become serious musical theater writers or performers—the biggest response to my bio usually comes for Schoolhouse Rock, followed closely by “What Would You Do For a Klondike Bar.” These seem to be cultural touchstones.

What are you working on these days? 

[Recently] opened the musical Rocky on Broadway, now running at the Winter Garden Theatre. Will be premiering an original musical called Little Dancer at the Kennedy Center this coming fall, directed by Susan Stroman. And following that I’ll be premiering another new musical, based on the animated film Anastasia. (I wrote the original songs for the movie in 1998.)

What do you consider your career highlight to date? 

Going to the Oscars for Anastasia was pretty amazing. Getting Rocky to Broadway via Hamburg, Germany has been life-changing. Ragtime, Once on This Island, and Seussical were all extraordinary experiences, for very different reasons. And of course Schoolhouse Rock, which made me a professional songwriter.

Where do you live?

New York.

What did you think when you first heard from me?

That you were confused about my having a son! [MTN: I read that here.]

Has anyone else ever interviewed about this? If so, when and for what publication? 

Many times, and honestly I don’t recall where or when.

Do you still have any ongoing connection (professionally or personally) to Schoolhouse Rock?

I have both. Just had lunch with Bobby Dorough, George Newall, and Rad Stone to celebrate Bobby’s 90th birthday (!). And a couple of years ago, I provided four new songs, one of which was a sequel to “Interplanet Janet.”

Have you appeared at any fan conventions to sign autographs? If not, would you?  

No, and probably wouldn’t.

Anyone else connected with Schoolhouse Rock you suggest I interview? 

I’m sure you know the key—George Newall, Rad Stone, Bobby Dorough and myself. Tom Yohe and Jack Sidebotham are sadly both gone, but Tom’s son (Tom Jr.) designed some of the most recent ones, and draws in a style very similar to his dad’s. Interestingly, when he was a little boy, Tom Jr. did one of the kid’s voices on my song “Interjections!” and his young son, Tommy III, sang on one of those recent ones I mentioned. So there are three generations of Tom Yohes associated with the show.

What is your perspective on the longevity and legacy of Schoolhouse Rock?  

It’s a beautiful show that has withstood the test of time and will continue to do so because it’s completely unaffected and innocent at heart. It amazes me how many different generations have been touched by the show.

How do you look back on the experience? 

Schoolhouse Rock taught me how to write songs on assignment, work with actors, work in a studio, record music, mix tracks, work with film and sound effects. It gave me the courage to go freelance as a young songwriter. Basically, it set me on the road to here.

How old were you when you began writing/singing for Schoolhouse Rock?

I would have been already 50 years old in December of 1973. By this time, Schoolhouse Rock had been on television since February. So as I began those songs, I was perhaps 47 or 48. I was never overly-conscious of age, per se, so it didn’t matter.

1976

What else were you doing professionally at the time?

I was engaged in creating some advertising music, having already produced and arranged for two or three LPs of the hot group Spanky and Our Gang. Plus, doing any jazz engagements I could scare up.

Where were you living at the time?

Where I live now, with one foot still in Long Island City, where I previously lived. One of my advertising pieces made me enough money for the down payment on my Pocono house. Legally I had changed my residence to Pennsylvania by 1966, i.e., before I’d met David B. McCall [the advertising executive who conceived of Schoolhouse Rock].

What did you think of the Schoolhouse Rock concept when it was pitched to you?

I was excited but cautious. I thought the idea was a bit puerile but then McCall added a line that shook my timbers. He said “But don’t write down to the children.” I was excited by the idea of being able to write for children (I was already a father myself) [but] cautious [in case] they wanted simplicity, like a jingle or something. (It seems he’d already sought the help of other NYC jingle composers.) His second line opened the floodgates of my life and experience in jazz, blues, and pop music.

How were you hired? Were you originally hired to write multiple songs, or just one?

There was no hiring. When they heard “Three Is a Magic Number” they (McCall and his executives) said “Oh, that’s what we’re looking for. Do some more.”

Did you have any say in which topics you got to write about?

It started as an idea to put the multiplication tables to “rock” music and call it “Multiplication Rock.” McCall wanted to finance an LP recording of the songs but, of necessity, we only went one song at a time. The recording process did begin rather early with the first session and I was being paid as an arranger and band leader in the union-approved sessions.

Did you propose any songs/topics that were rejected?

Actually, the first session tackled two songs I had written for them, “Three Is a Magic Number” and “Do Your Sevenses.” Later on, “Do Your Sevenses” was rejected. There were no “topics” at this point—just numbers.

How long would it take you, on average, to write a Schoolhouse Rock song? Did you do your own research or were you presented with which facts to include?

The first presentation consisted of me traveling to their NYC office with a cassette or tape of my song. After McCall’s challenge, I took two weeks before I brought in the “Three” song. During this two weeks, I did my own research. I had a collection of diverse math books, including one on “The New Math.” I was a sort of amateur mathematician. I imagine most musicians are into numbers quite naturally. After the animation phase began, there were hired researchers for subjects like grammar, history, and science. There was also more control in the song subjects and, of course, other songwriters at hand.

You are single-handedly responsible for many of Schoolhouse Rock’s greatest hits. Which song you wrote was your favorite and why?

I’d have to say, although it’s like asking a mother to name her favorite child, that “Three Is a Magic Number” would be my fave, since it literally got me the job. By default I was eventually hired as musical director of the projects.

Which Schoolhouse Rock song was your favorite to sing?

“Lucky Seven Sampson,” my second song about seven, was and is a favorite—a signature song of mine because, in a way, it is the story of my life.

What is your favorite Schoolhouse Rock song you did not write?

“The Tale of Mr. Morton” by Lynn Ahrens. She has the knack for telling a story that also gets the message through.

Of all songs you have written (not just Schoolhouse Rock), which is your favorite?

Again, do I have to finger one of my children? I love “Nothing Like You,” which I wrote to a Fran Landesman lyric and which was recorded by Miles Davis.

Any funny stories from the recordings?

Sessions are always funny because musicians are a funny lot. However, it (the session) is also serious business. I had an opportunity to hire some of my friends and to become friends with some musicians I hadn’t known before. There was the pleasure of providing them with work in the studio.

What did you think of the finished animated musical shorts?

Well, imagine me, a 50-year old veteran of World War II and a hodgepodge musical career, watching Saturday morning cartoons. I was thrilled to hear my voice on the mysterious telly.

How were you paid—salary, flat fee per song, royalty per song, other?

I was paid very well. There was a fee for each accepted song and this fee increased as the years went by. Plus I made union wages whenever I was in the studio as leader/pianist, arranger, and sometimes even as copyist. My pal and partner Ben Tucker often got extra pay as contractor, as well as for playing the bass.

What are your most cherished/funniest Schoolhouse Rock stories since (a reaction when someone you meet discovers you had a role in it, seeing its influence in an unexpected way, hearing a celeb you admire sing its praises, etc.)?

We all get a thrill when Rachel Maddow talks about “I’m Just a Bill” or “Conjunction Junction.” It’s amazing how the oeuvre has penetrated the national consciousness. Of course I meet countless people in my jazz work that turn out to hear “the Schoolhouse Rock guy.” It’s like food, all the tribute and love I get from schoolteachers who still use the DVD in their classrooms. I admire all those brave schoolteachers.

What are you working on these days?

Mostly, I work on my jazz singing career/songwriting successes and the like. Without the stimulus of Schoolhouse Rock, I don’t write as many songs but, now and then, I get an idea and am able to flush it out into a song.

2011

What do you consider your career highlight to date?

Singing with Miles Davis.

Where do you live?

In Northeastern Pennsylvania, just 70 miles west of the Apple.

If you have kids/grandkids, what did they think of your Schoolhouse Rock songs?

My only child is Aralee. She was just 8 and 9 when I started Multiplication Rock. She was the perfect sounding board and [took] part in several recordings (the children in “The Four Legged Zoo” and the voice in “My Hero Zero”). She is now the principal flutist of the Houston Symphony Orchestra and also plays jazz. I have one grandson and several step-grandchildren and they all think I am the cat’s pajamas.

What did you think when you first heard from me?

Oy vey, another one! I have written several times about my take on the subject and consider it my property—even what I’ve written for you.

Has anyone else ever interviewed about this? If so, when and for what publication?

It’s in all my PR—there was that magnificent Oxford Magazine article. So many—I’ve forgotten.

Do you still have any ongoing connection (professionally or personally) to Schoolhouse Rock?

I am the only one who speaks for and performs Schoolhouse Rock. I work in elementary schools in my area and wherever. Sometime I combine a jazz club gig with one of the schools in that (whatever) city. George Newall, Gill Dyrli, and I sometimes work in educational or technological conventions. Dr. Dyrli was hired as a consultant starting with the Grammar days, I think. I called him the “Grammar Guru.” And George Newall was a musician in Mad Men disguise. He majored in composition and played jazz piano in college, as I did; but he was one of McCall’s major advertising writers. Later on, he contributed several songs including the fabulous “Unpack Your Adjectives.”

Have you appeared at any fan conventions to sign autographs? If not, would you?

Yes, the aforementioned educational conventions gave me lots of talks with fans and I have signed many, many autographs for kids from 90 to 2.

What is your perspective on the longevity and legacy of Schoolhouse Rock?

I think it is here to stay, in whatever form the media take.

How do you look back on the experience?

It is probable that a lot of the kids watching cartoons in the ‘70s grew up and perhaps worked in jazz bars as waiters, working their way through college or something. It was [in such bars], in the ‘80s, that one of them might say “I like your voice. It sounds familiar. Did you ever do any of that stuff called—what was it? Schoolhouse Rock?” This soon led me to insert the songs from Schoolhouse Rock into my jazz sets.

One of my shows is called Schoolhouse Rock and All That Jazz. Another, which was never produced, is a personal memoir called How I Wrote Multiplication Rock and Still Swung.

2011

Anything you’d like to add?

I receive more than my due credit as “the creator of Schoolhouse Rock,” etc. As the most visible representative of Schoolhouse Rock, I am out there, on the line, as it were, where I sing the songs and keep them alive.

But I owe a lot to Ben Tucker. He introduced my music to George Newall, who, as a jazz fan, used to hear Ben playing bass with Billy Taylor and/or Marion McPartland. This led to my first meeting with McCall after Ben told George that I was a guy who could “put anything to music.”

I owe so much to Tom Yohe for his brilliant animation design and to George Newall for his musical support and the fact that he gave me the title for “Conjunction Junction.”

Lynn Ahrens, for her brilliant lyrics and contributions to the project that made it such a classy act. She of course has since distinguished herself as a Broadway lyricist and librettist.

We owe much to the singing of Jack Sheldon. George says he is “the cartoon voice of the century.”

Then there is the songwriter, Dave Frishberg. He got off to a slow start with “I’m Just a Bill” as his sole contribution until we launched a fifth series called “Money Rock” where he practically stole the show.

We have not mentioned the BAM Theater Group—a bunch of “kids” who remembered Schoolhouse Rock and said, “Hey, let’s do a show.” Schoolhouse Rock Live! is now available for renting and producing in your own school or hometown, just like My Fair Lady or Bye Bye Birdie.